How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

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How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by bokkins on Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

Hi guys, I've been wanting to open this up dati pa. Gawin natin tong small discussion on how to properly criticize a work by colleagues to guide us into a better understanding of what we are doing.

Aside from the fact that we are super sensitive as artist, lalo na when it comes to our personal works. It is also important that we stress the points of improvement directly and objectively. Wala na sanang pasikot sikot pa o pasaring na tipong double meaning ang dating.

The goal of this thread is to develop a good sense of critic.

Below are some phrases or words that I personally do not like seeing in post: You may also share yours and suggests. Everybody is welcome to contribute.

1. parang may mali... or sa monitor ko lang. (what's the sense kung iba naman pala ang monitor mo di ba?)
2. nagtataka lang ako sa door (ground floor), parang grainy sya, o sa mata ko lang. (avoid na natin yung mga side comments na sa mata ko lang, hindi talaga nakakatulong sa pagimprove yan.)
3...

Ito naman ang mga suggestions ko on how to critic:
1. point out the mistakes
2. suggest solutions on how to improve them
3. explain why if you find anything odd
4. suggest references if you have time
5. go direct to the point
6. be objective
7. avoid unnecessary comments
8. avoid using local dialects for everyone to benefit from the discussions

Sa thread na to, sana maimprove natin ang pagcritic. Yung mga compliments naman, hayaan na muna natin, these are ego boosters which I have observed will help improve a persons mood. a happy mood means good everything. Smile
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by bokkins on Fri May 07, 2010 2:24 am

mukhang malaki talaga ang galit mo kay baste bro ah. I get your point now. Tuloy nalang natin ang discussions.

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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by cloud20 on Fri May 07, 2010 2:54 am

bokkins wrote:masisira na naman tong thread na to, nang-aaway na naman kasi kayo eh. Kaya ayaw makisali ng iba dito eh, kasi kayong mga old at oldies palaaway talaga. Twisted Evil

Hehe... This is what I'm reacting to boss. Contrary to what others may think, di po ako namemersonal. But when you say that I'm the cause of something entirely untrue, I will always react & take it personally.
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by theomatheus on Fri May 07, 2010 3:01 am

19BASTE67 wrote:Hindi lahat ng magaling ay magaling at hindi lahat ng hindi magaling ay wlang alam...iisa lang ang dapat isa alang alang ng bawat pumuna sa mga gawa o nakikita ng bawat isa sa katulad ng elektronikong talaan ng mga kasayanan o pagpapakita ng bawat anking galing o talino sa paglikha ng kanilang mga obra o pulidong trabaho sa bawat antas ng kasanayan..Huwag mong pansin ang pumupuna sa sayo bagkus tulungan mo sila hindi ko kailangan ang mamagaling ang kailangan ko ay ang may mga sakit....

ang lalim ah.di ko naintindihan sir.. Sad naguluhan ako sa elektronikong talaan at iba pa.. paki elaborate po..salamat
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by bokkins on Fri May 07, 2010 3:31 am

cloud20 wrote:
bokkins wrote:masisira na naman tong thread na to, nang-aaway na naman kasi kayo eh. Kaya ayaw makisali ng iba dito eh, kasi kayong mga old at oldies palaaway talaga. Twisted Evil

Hehe... This is what I'm reacting to boss. Contrary to what others may think, di po ako namemersonal. But when you say that I'm the cause of something entirely untrue, I will always react & take it personally.

sinabi ko lang kasi na old, pinersonal mo na kaagad. general naman dapat yun. si erick kasali din dun. sorry to have touch your sensitive side. Smile

nasan na ba si baste? paki-elaborate nga nitong statement mo.
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by v_wrangler on Fri May 07, 2010 3:36 am

Ha???? Sinong matanda? Sinong matanda? Si nomer lang ang matanda ah???

Biro lang mga peeps! Hayaan na natin ung mga nakakalitong commercials. BAck na lang tayo sa regular programming....

*)
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by cloud20 on Fri May 07, 2010 3:41 am

Huwag nyo pong kakalimutan si Heneral Jumong matanda din po kase yun eh baka magtampo po kasi yun.
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by 3dpjumong2007 on Fri May 07, 2010 6:24 am

cloud20 wrote:Huwag nyo pong kakalimutan si Heneral Jumong matanda din po kase yun eh baka magtampo po kasi yun.

kala ko naka escape ako ? wehehehehehe... sir nomer aamin ba tayo ?psssssssssssst.. where's baste? i think is an old member sa kabila pa reunited lng dito ,see his age bracket kami lng ata...
@ baste ,sir paki elaborate naman po marami na po kami naguguluhan to make this clear ...nabibitin po kami lalo na sa last phrase na "sakit" , sabi tuloy ni old bump cloud eh baka nurse po kayo? patawa lng bro ha ...all im asking is to elaborate this ,to make your comment beneficial to all members...
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by SunDance on Fri May 07, 2010 8:41 am

watch mode ..... Rolling Eyes with popcorn
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by arkiedmund on Fri May 07, 2010 11:22 am

OT: mas bata lang ako ng 10 yrs sa mga kuya dito...hihihi....

balik na tayo sa usapan...

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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by silvercrown on Fri May 07, 2010 8:18 pm

houdini wrote:Hi guys, newbie here pasingit kunti...ive been following this thread for a while. ok yung takbo ng thread and I understand the objective that when you do critiques, all we want is straight honest to goodness and direct to the point answers. now lets observe American Idol, youve got 3 judges one is a sharp shooter (simon) , yung isa mahilig magpasikot sikot(paula), n yung huli astig kung sumagot(randy). kung kunyare puro simon or randy nalng yung judge, what will you feel? although you have established uniformity pero kulang parin, are we gonna take this critiques way too seriously? to the point we will have to limit what we want to say.

tsaka we are from different character and different behavior A kiss ass comment to others might just be a simpleng acknowledgemnt lang nung nagpadala, a simpleng comment from a critique will sometimes be an assault to the guys credibility. Again no one can classify this from that kasi, tao lang tayo. everybody is entitled to his/her own observation and well, comments. take a look at cgtalk 11secondclub, highend3d, our very own cgpinoy and among others, they were made on the norms establishing a social connection in a virtual world to people who share the same interest, hobbies or profession. I dont think this was made for the main purpose of learning lang. so what's wrong with loosening up? every work you see try to acknowledge man lang yung pinaghirapan niya. try to see what's good with it.

I agree with the 8 points of properly critiquing one's work, but then again these are just the proper way but not the right way
There are many ways to impart wisdom, a sharp barb comment is one, and a simpleng tagay is another one.

cheers,

Houdini inuman na

Nabaling sa mga matatanda yung usapan, di tuloy napansin 'tong mga magagandang puntos ni master houdini... kukulit din netong mga senior citizens ah? gusto sigurong masusi-an yung mga tenga... Twisted Evil

@ master houdini: actually bro tama din yang mga sinabi mo, and i agree with you 100% (wala na c paula sa AI ah? hehehe)
ok lang yan minsan nagbobolohan,naglolokohan yung mga magkakaibigan sa thread (gaya ng ginagawa ng matatanda sa thread na to) peace man it lightens the mood to say the least...

but this discussion is really meant to those members who post the same comments , mga walang ka-kwenta kwentang comments sa halos lahat ng thread... it was so viral to the point you'll get sick reading the many senseless comments... it has virtually blanketed the site with thick slick of moronic, uninspiring, unintelligent, lazy, *ss licking, b*lls licking puke!

Try going over the threads lalo na dun sa "architectural" and you'll see what i mean...
Help me count ilan 'tong mga 'to, and you'll start scratching your head, your back, your body as if you're lying on a bed of lice! bed bugs...
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by houdini on Fri May 07, 2010 9:46 pm

@silvercrown:
bro wag na master, baka maniwala yung iba hehehe
oo nga ano wla na c paula, halatang wla ng update sa tv Very Happy
yup tama yung sabi mo about those kinds of comments, every now and then I tend to drop by cgpinoy. and mga ganitong comment does not escape me.
But like I said earlier, try walking thru forums like cgtalk, highend3d,atibapa
ganito rin ang sistema eh. meron parin talagang magpopost ng ganitong comments and alam ko hindi taga cgpinoy yun. Very Happy pero ive never seen somebody complained. I'm not insisting on following them but what I'm trying to say is try looking at this comments at the same level field. Dont presuppose, Don't judge...just consider them as plain comments, then move on. for me di nakikita o nahuhusgahan ang totoong character ng tao thru these one liners lang, di natin alam mga masters din pala yan who opted to share their thoughts in an entirely different way and sometimes may appear too different to what we believe. ika sa kasabihan, dont judge the book by its cellophane cover hehehe.

Kanina lang may nagpost ng comment tapos and dating eh di daw maintindihan, kaso kawawa yung nagpost tinira kaagad pinagtulungan pa hehehe.

inuman na
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by v_wrangler on Fri May 07, 2010 9:54 pm

You guys have to take out the persona in each posts. Nobody says hinuhusgahan ang tao based on their posts. The thoughts in all the post is all that matters.

And no, it is not correct to say that if other forums are ok with with liners or kiss my ass post then its ok wherever you go. Pinoys are assholes in some departments because nobody complains or because everyone's doing the same thing wherever you look. But nevertheless, assholes are assholes right? We're not trying to be elitists. We're trying to be different for a good purpose IMHO.

The original posts by Bokkins about how to critic summarizes it all. If everyone will follow those suggestions then I am sure there will be no problems nor any further discussions coming our way anymore.

That's it. Criticize the post or the image. NOt the person. Nothing less nothing more.
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by 3dpjumong2007 on Fri May 07, 2010 11:31 pm

from houdini :"Kanina lang may nagpost ng comment tapos and dating eh di daw maintindihan, kaso kawawa yung nagpost tinira kaagad pinagtulungan pa hehehe."

http://forum.3dpinoy.com/showthread.php?t=430&highlight=kurapikah
@houdini
try to see why we do this bro.its for our protection , if you want that to happen to cgp wag naman sana gawin patatawanan lng ang thread na ito ..if we are going to read clouds link to baste's reply superbb!! with exclamation point pa! compare this to his late reply to this thread ,would you think at his intellectual capacity cannot deliver a comment for this thread with respect that members to easily comprehend ? cloud just acted naturally to the post and followed by erics asking it to ellaborate it ,tulad ko di ako masyado fluent sa malalim na tagalog and again asking pardon na sana ellaborate para kasing naudlot sa huli thats why i pointed out the last word "sakit" but please try to understand what we are doing here .kaya nga sinabi ko pa patawa lng bro ha!coz i want to put on water to the flame if you get it...try to see the link ...its just simple what eric ,cloud and i are doin . we love cgp ...pls understand.... peace bro ..
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by Valiant on Sat May 08, 2010 1:31 am

bokkins wrote: Ito naman ang mga suggestions ko on how to critic:
1. point out the mistakes
2. suggest solutions on how to improve them

nice read... makita ko lang tong two items na to sa pagcomment sa akin masaya na ako... Smile pero kung ung number one lang... balewala din ung comment... parang sinabi lang nung nagcomment na "may alam ako... pero hindi kita tuturuan" Smile
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by v_wrangler on Sat May 08, 2010 2:15 am

nice read... makita ko lang tong two items na to sa pagcomment sa akin masaya na ako... Smile pero kung ung number one lang... balewala din ung comment... parang sinabi lang nung nagcomment na "may alam ako... pero hindi kita tuturuan" Smile


Wrong. Wrong Perception.

Even if you got number one you should be thankful someone got the courage to tell you which area your work sucks. I bet in general, girlfriends or wives or daughters or sons or the whole pinoy tribe will never say the same thing for fear of touching upon the precious ego.

So what kung di ka turuan. Does the critic owe you something? Nah.

Most of the time, the mere pointing out is all we need to get those initiative juices flowing. The critic's job is to ellicit your attention about the areas that you might have left out or areas you might have refused to see.

Suggestions about the solutions is just an added bonus.

Finding the solution is actually your part of the equation.

I'll point out you've got a boogie peeping out your nostrils. I don't have to tell you to pick it, pull them out or push them in, neither do I have to pick it for you. You got to do it on your own fast as you could para lalo kang di kahiya-hiya. Same analogy, some people will notice but never say anything to protect you daw from kahihiyan. Well, here's what I say - the longer you've got the boogies in there - mas lalo kayong kahiya hiya!

So thank the person who called thy attention. Simple eh?
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by Valiant on Sat May 08, 2010 9:01 am

v_wrangler wrote:
nice read... makita ko lang tong two items na to sa pagcomment sa akin masaya na ako... Smile pero kung ung number one lang... balewala din ung comment... parang sinabi lang nung nagcomment na "may alam ako... pero hindi kita tuturuan" Smile


Wrong. Wrong Perception.

Even if you got number one you should be thankful someone got the courage to tell you which area your work sucks. I bet in general, girlfriends or wives or daughters or sons or the whole pinoy tribe will never say the same thing for fear of touching upon the precious ego.

So what kung di ka turuan. Does the critic owe you something? Nah.

Most of the time, the mere pointing out is all we need to get those initiative juices flowing. The critic's job is to ellicit your attention about the areas that you might have left out or areas you might have refused to see.

Suggestions about the solutions is just an added bonus.

Finding the solution is actually your part of the equation.

I'll point out you've got a boogie peeping out your nostrils. I don't have to tell you to pick it, pull them out or push them in, neither do I have to pick it for you. You got to do it on your own fast as you could para lalo kang di kahiya-hiya. Same analogy, some people will notice but never say anything to protect you daw from kahihiyan. Well, here's what I say - the longer you've got the boogies in there - mas lalo kayong kahiya hiya!

So thank the person who called thy attention. Simple eh?

well vertex... i respect your opinion... you have to respect mine.

if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by corpsegrinder on Sat May 08, 2010 9:20 am

Valiant wrote:

well vertex... i respect your opinion... you have to respect mine.

if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...

Ang ibig nyo bang sabihin hndi nirespeto ni vertex ang opinyon nyo???

Its like everytime you respond to vertex opinion, ngmumukhang mahina ang iyong pick-up...
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by Valiant on Sat May 08, 2010 9:27 am

corpsegrinder wrote:
Valiant wrote:

well vertex... i respect your opinion... you have to respect mine.

if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...

Ang ibig nyo bang sabihin hndi nirespeto ni vertex ang opinyon nyo???

Its like everytime you respond to vertex opinion, ngmumukhang mahina ang iyong pick-up...

pare wag kang makisawsaw... kung gusto mong magpapogi kay vertex gumawa ka ng sarili mong comment at post...
kung mahina akong pumick-up for you e pagpasensyahan mo na... ganun talaga... hindi pare-pareho ng talino ang bawat tao... nagkataon na mas magaling kang pumick-up sa akin kaya hat's-off sayo.
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by corpsegrinder on Sat May 08, 2010 9:29 am

Valiant wrote:
corpsegrinder wrote:
Valiant wrote:

well vertex... i respect your opinion... you have to respect mine.

if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...

Ang ibig nyo bang sabihin hndi nirespeto ni vertex ang opinyon nyo???

Its like everytime you respond to vertex opinion, ngmumukhang mahina ang iyong pick-up...

pare wag kang makisawsaw... kung gusto mong magpapogi kay vertex gumawa ka ng sarili mong comment at post...
kung mahina akong pumick-up for you e pagpasensyahan mo na... ganun talaga... hindi pare-pareho ng talino ang bawat tao... nagkataon na mas magaling kang pumick-up sa akin kaya hat's-off sayo.

hindi tayo magkumpare...


Last edited by corpsegrinder on Sat May 08, 2010 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by Valiant on Sat May 08, 2010 9:30 am

corpsegrinder wrote:
Valiant wrote:
corpsegrinder wrote:
Valiant wrote:

well vertex... i respect your opinion... you have to respect mine.

if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...

Ang ibig nyo bang sabihin hndi nirespeto ni vertex ang opinyon nyo???

Its like everytime you respond to vertex opinion, ngmumukhang mahina ang iyong pick-up...

pare wag kang makisawsaw... kung gusto mong magpapogi kay vertex gumawa ka ng sarili mong comment at post...
kung mahina akong pumick-up for you e pagpasensyahan mo na... ganun talaga... hindi pare-pareho ng talino ang bawat tao... nagkataon na mas magaling kang pumick-up sa akin kaya hat's-off sayo.

hndi tau mgkumpare...

hahaha is that your best shot?
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by celes on Sat May 08, 2010 9:31 am

v_wrangler wrote:
I'll point out you've got a boogie peeping out your nostrils. I don't have to tell you to pick it, pull them out or push them in, neither do I have to pick it for you. You got to do it on your own fast as you could para lalo kang di kahiya-hiya. Same analogy, some people will notice but never say anything to protect you daw from kahihiyan. Well, here's what I say - the longer you've got the boogies in there - mas lalo kayong kahiya hiya!

So thank the person who called thy attention. Simple eh?

OT: so parang

TITLE of THREAD: Cave Boogie (Practice Mode, with HDRI)

commentator 1: me nakadungaw na boogie sa left kweba niyo po master, IMO lang.

TS: salamat sa pagpuna sir, any tips or suggestions para matanggal?

commentator 1: well maraming ways. pwede ka gumamit ng nipper version 2008 kaso ang drawback niyan baka me masali na buhok sa ilong. i think the best solution is to simply pick it with your right hand finger, pwede rin left kung left handed ka. dont forget na wag ipahid yan sa kung saan saan though. looking forward to your next boogie. keep it up!

commentator 2: nasabi na nila ang comments sir, pero para sa kin sir aprub tong boogie niyo, lufet! buttrock
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by Valiant on Sat May 08, 2010 9:32 am

celes wrote:
v_wrangler wrote:
I'll point out you've got a boogie peeping out your nostrils. I don't have to tell you to pick it, pull them out or push them in, neither do I have to pick it for you. You got to do it on your own fast as you could para lalo kang di kahiya-hiya. Same analogy, some people will notice but never say anything to protect you daw from kahihiyan. Well, here's what I say - the longer you've got the boogies in there - mas lalo kayong kahiya hiya!

So thank the person who called thy attention. Simple eh?

OT: so parang

TITLE of THREAD: Cave Boogie (Practice Mode, with HDRI)

commentator 1: me nakadungaw na boogie sa left kweba niyo po master, IMO lang.

TS: salamat sa pagpuna sir, any tips or suggestions para matanggal?

commentator 1: well maraming ways. pwede ka gumamit ng nipper version 2008 kaso ang drawback niyan baka me masali na buhok sa ilong. i think the best solution is to simply pick it with your right hand finger, pwede rin left kung left handed ka. dont forget na wag ipahid yan sa kung saan saan though. looking forward to your next boogie. keep it up!

commentator 2: nasabi na nila ang comments sir, pero para sa kin sir aprub tong boogie niyo, lufet! buttrock

now we're talking... Very Happy i still love commentator one though Twisted Evil
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by celes on Sat May 08, 2010 9:37 am

OT: di ko inaasar si vertex ha. friend ko yan.. magkasing edad kami niyan eh. lol

@vertex - your quips are really out of this world man. what's CGP without you, or the CG industry in general? hippie that was a great metaphor hehe
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by v_wrangler on Sat May 08, 2010 10:05 am



if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...

Valiant, I think I was lost in translation. My gist actually is to never wait until someone tells you, loud or not. Its still ya boogie.

That's what we call self-quality control. But not everyone can do such a thing, maybe because his standards were low. Or that's all he know. So thank thy critic, for without them, loud or not, the boogies will make your brethren melt with embarassment. And you lose one pogi point from your girlfriends.

As for respect of opinion, I'll do if you're on the bright side. As long as you can argue the points and you're able to convince me. Make me run out of words.

Seriously now, I respect thy opinion but the whole point is - If you get number one advice and you were told what's wrong with your particular work, be thankful. You'll never get such an advice for free other than this forum.

@celes, naalala ko ang sabi ni misis sa akin nong binata pa lang ako, "hoy may tutsang ka!" Sabi ko naman, di naman nakikita eh! Sagot sa akin, wag mo nang hintayin pang dumungaw at may magsabi pa sa yo. From that time onwards, I learned to trim them even before somebody notices. Forgive the analogy, I was looking at the mirror this morning and wondered how come nasal hair grow fast in the Philippines... must be the air...

Seriously now, I wonder if I'll have the temper to mimic commentator one, mix him and vertex I wonder what we got! Love them!

Very Happy thumbsup


Last edited by v_wrangler on Sat May 08, 2010 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by v_wrangler on Sat May 08, 2010 10:14 am

The problem with the culture is that we were conditioned to accept criticisms that were sugar coated to make it look like good manners. Anything that does not play well with our egos or standards for interactions - are usually frowned upon. What a boring world.

Unfortunately I am a product of contradicting cultures that despise a play of words that is isn't concise and direct to the point. Well, I just made that up.

I'm just the vertexwrangler - this is my persona. I am your conscience speaking to you. Laughing
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

Post by v_wrangler on Sat May 08, 2010 10:17 am

corpsegrinder wrote:
Valiant wrote:

well vertex... i respect your opinion... you have to respect mine.

if you will give me that analogy of a boogie... it will still depends on how the other person told me... if he said it with a loud voice... still mapapahiya ako di ba? so you can't compare it to a forums like this... wherein everyone can see the post of other person pointing out a certain person's mistake... kaya sinabi ko na mas mabuting merong solution...

Ang ibig nyo bang sabihin hndi nirespeto ni vertex ang opinyon nyo???

Its like everytime you respond to vertex opinion, ngmumukhang mahina ang iyong pick-up...

Corpse, we really can't please everyone. So the solution is not to please them at all. Let's focus our energies into something more productive....I'm going to pick my nose! Smile
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Re: How to criticize a work?! (A small discussion)

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