Work Flow Thread

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Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:48 pm

Gusto kong pagusapan dito kung ano-ano bang work flow ang mga dinaanan nyo. in that way yung mga newbie na katulad ko e magkaroon ng idea. lets start kung pano tayo nag start. im for sure magkakaroon tayo ng clear and good start in 3d. lets go to basic software dito sa tambayan 3d max.

here's my workflow:
1. max(modellling and rendering) dito na ako diretso gumagawa ng model. second nalang ang SU pag may tangap ng trabaho. mas madaling gamitin e. i prefer dito magsimula kasi walang magiging problema sa rendering, texturing and mapping since direct siya from max.

http://www.cgpinoy.org/3d-studio-max-tutorials-f46/3ds-max-intro-to-modeling-chair-t6661.htm
http://www.cgpinoy.org/3d-studio-max-tutorials-f46/3ds-max-intro-to-modeling-using-bend-twist-taper-ffd-box-t6794.htm
http://www.cgpinoy.org/3d-studio-max-tutorials-f46/3d-max-modelling-tips-t3696.htm
http://www.cgpinoy.org/3d-studio-max-tutorials-f46/simple-house-modelling-by-f41-t6208.htm

2. photoshop(enhancing) usually dito ang madalas kong gamitin is ctrl+L(level), ctrl+M(curves), ctrl+B(color balance), yung brightness/contrast(nasa image tab, adjustment)

http://www.cgpinoy.org/photoshop-tutorials-f49/

later on this thread gawin kong detailed yung workflow para mas maintindihan ng tropa. and i hope to see the masters sharing their thoughts and workflow para sa mga small time na katulad ko at magkaroon ng idea from our big brothers.
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by arkiedmund on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:07 pm

Nice Topic:

share din ako ng basic workflow ko.

1. kung may floorplan, nililinis ko ito sa cad (removing dimensions, and layers that i don;t need in max, so that it will be less processing hungry on my rams.

2. i load the plan in max, via file link manager. I then select the loaded file and copy it via clone. After which i detach the file that linked by going to the detached option of the file link manager.

3. while the plan is still selected i group it. And start tracing from there, or if i am in a rush i select the wall layer, copy it, and detach from group, apply my extrude modifier, and work from there. Basically i model everything in max, with or without a floor plan to trace.

4. with regards to rendering, first thing i do is to load an override white material to the entire scene, i am not sure if i am doing it right but my color value is at 248,248,248. This is to check my lighting quality at a faster and shorter amount of time.

5. vray settings are set to low, with a lightcache value of only 100. I then start texturing the models. I usually use some of my stock textures, but most of the time i create my own, and all subdivisions are set to 8. I would only crank it up when needed, this is to speed up the rendering process.

6. Final rendering are used with the irradiance/light cache combination, which i found to be ideal in a production environment, as opposed to brute force g.i. which takes years to render even on a decent rig, and IMHO is not advisable if you are on a rush. Anyway, you can also produce excellent images using the Irr+LC combination, as seen from the works of some of the masters here.

7. Photoshop will always be there, for image touch-up, and the usual color balance, level and curves adjustment.

ayan na muna...i am sure mas marami ditong mas magaling sa akin, kaya, sana may napulot kayo sa aking simpleng workflow.

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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by eragasco on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:20 pm

sir ang galing mo, naunahan mo ako. hehehe. naisip ko na kasi itanong ito dito sa cgp. nung una kasi sa cad ako gawa plan tapos 3d tapos sa max ko render. nung medyo tumagal-tagal na, nagagamay ko na pag-ikot sa max, from cad(floor plan), import ko sa max tapos dun ko na itinatayo. pati roof, etc. 'di ko ngayon alam kung ano mas mainam. sabi ng kilala ko, mas mainam nga sa file link manager kasi pwede mo galawin cad files mo. unlike na diretso sa max. isa pa iniisip ko pag sa cad, pwede ka mag maganda roof o manual kung wala ka batzal sa max. dalas kasi mapping lang gamit ko roof e hindi maganda itsura.
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by ONCIRE on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:38 pm

my workflow:

1. from autocad i just need the elevations at yung typical floor plans. clean the plans, explode,erased all dimensions, text, at useless items(furniture, fixture etc).

2. import the cad in max. group the plans, move to 0,0,0(origin),synchronize yung elevation at floor plans. then freeze(para di ko siya ma accidentally maedit at mamove).

3. max-modeling part, trace the plans....
power tools ko are-----line, extrude modifier, rectangle, circle, edit spline, convert to editable spline, outline(edit spline), fillet(edit spline), detach(edit spline), shell, sweep, edit poly, convert to editable poly, detach(edit poly), ffd,(lahat yan my keyboard shortcut na ko kaya super bilis magmodel)-----kung mapapansin nyo usually puro splines gamit ko.di ako gumagamit ng mga geometry(e.g. box,cylinder etc)

4. rendering part- siempre nandyan si bestfriend vray... apply uvw map,apply materials...tweak settings in vray i usually start sa very low settings when test rendering. then adjust the quality sa final rendering...

5. photoshop- retouch na lang dito konting tweak lng pra di masira ung overall look ng render galing vray... simpleng curves/levels/contrast yun na..
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by bokkins on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:47 pm

Nice topic bro. Share ko din sa akin.

1. Autocad for cleaning the plan. Tanggal lahat ng mga hindi kailangan para malinis pag dating sa max. Usually mga dimension at furniture templates. Walls at openings nalang na natitira.

2. Either import sa Sketchup or direct na sa 3ds Max. Usually Sketchup muna pag mga banyo at madaming cabinets. Kitchen din. 3ds max naman pag medyo simple lang at mabilisan na scenes.

3. Pag meron na akong nagawa sa sketchup, import ko sa max, then dun ko na nilalagyan ng texture at pre made models. Kung walang mahanap na model sa library ko or sa google warehouse, gumagawa nalang ako. Lalo na sa interiors. Exteriors naman, halos model lahat except for cars and trees.

4. After render. Either adjust ko sa vray frame buffer ang brightness at contrast or save ko muna at edit sa Photoshop.

5. Minsan, pag nagmamadali na talaga. After rendering a no tree no car scene, save ko to at nilalagyan ng entourage sa photoshop.

Yan ang work-flow na nakasanayan ko na. Sometimes nagexperiment pa din ako para maiba naman. Although meron na akong style na gamit, minsan nakakasawa din, kaya always try something new. Smile
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by bokkins on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:59 pm

Dagdag ko din pala yung sa rendering process.

1. White walls muna, tapos inaayos ko ang ilaw. Ok lang kung sobrang liwanag, lalo na pag hindi naman talaga white ang wall na gagamitin mo. Once kasi ngiba ka na ng kulay na medyo dark na, nagiging darker din ang render.

2. After ko marender ng tama ang timpla ng ilaw, nilalagyan ko na ng texture ang walls at sahig. Usually white lang ceiling. Usually, a combination of vray light and ies light ang gamit ko sa interiors, ies sun naman sa exterior.

3. Now for renders na kailangan kita ang groves or lines, ginagamitan ko ng vray dirt. Sa vray dirt kasi, pwede mo paglaruan ang kulay, just use the light and dark shade, magkakaron na ng AO ang mga corners. 0.5 lang ang gamit ko para di gaanong maliit or malaki.

4. Pag sa floor tiles naman, gamit ko ang tiles na material. Magkakaron ka kasi ng lines, na depende sayo ang kulay, over your material. Kaya mukuhang tiles talaga.

5. After ko maayos ang textures, saka ko nilalagyan ng ibang elements. Either merge ko from other projects (usually doors, cars, trees) para mapuno ang scene.

6. While modeling or editing my scene, I always use hide and unhide commands. Very important ang hide/unhide kasi mas madali mong maedit ang mga bagay bagay at naisolate mo sila. Minsan naman freeze pag kailangan ko sa scene pro hindi dapat naseselect. Pero kung mabigat na ang scene, usually, minomodel ko sa ibang scene tapos merge nalang after.

7. Sa rendering naman, meron akong mga konting adjustments lang. Gamit ko ang nakasave ko na preset na ginamit ko sa mga previous projects. Then post process na sa photoshop. Minsan pati mga revisions sa photoshop ko na din ginagawa. Lalo na yung konting edit lang.
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:55 pm

thanks sir mund, eragasco, oncire, sir boks sa mga work flow nyo. im getting new ideas and can generate along together with my style.

1. cad and SU, linis mo na ako ng mga items that needs to be removed(purge layers)

sa cad type - PURGE, then saka ko tangalin yung mga objects na di kailangan. kung pwede gawin a layer lang yung lahat ng objects para sa max di na sya hiwalay hiwalay(correct me kung may option sa max na pwede 1 layer lang pag inimport)


sa SU may layer tab din dun and you can purge unnecesary layers

http://www.videojug.com/webvideo/how-to-use-layers-in-sketchup

2. import from max. kung cad siya we can start modelling it. make sure naka turn on yung snap ng max(makikita sa main command tab)

3. once we got the model, we can start doing the lighting, ang gamit ko for interior, vray ambient light. binababa ko yung intensity nya then change ko yung kulay nya to yellowish since yellow ang real world natin. dun ako naglalaro para makuha yung ambiance nya.



saka ako maglalagay ng IES. ies lighting for me di ko sya ginagamit as fill lights sa kwarto kasi mahirap kunin yung brightness ng kwarto. except kung may mood talaga kayong hinahabol.

http://www.cgpinoy.org/3d-studio-max-tutorials-f46/basic-ies-lighting-guidelines-t2168.htm?highlight=lighting

4. saka ako isa isa akong maglalagay ng material sa mga object. pag may problema ako sa vray material specially color bleeding ang ginagawa ko nilalagayan ko ng vray overide. post ko later yung snapshot sa bahay.

5. try to adjust againg lighting according with the setup of the materials.

6. rendering. gamit ko sa setup: reinhard for color mapping mas madali kontrolin yung burn values.....


Last edited by f-41 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by whey09 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 pm

Here's mine naman:

1. Clean up the floor plan sa autocadd then write block it. Usually ang iniiwan ko nalang na layers ay walls, property line, and some lines na kailangan sa site development plan.

2. Import ko sa 3dmax yung floor plan then i will start modelling muna the walls by using box, line or rectangle. After ma model ko na mga walls, i will model na the windows, windows, roof and site development. While modelling, ina apply ko na ang mga materials to make sure na i wont miss anything.

3. After that, lulutuin ko na ang lighting ang camera set up ko. May render preset na ako for draft renderrings. What i do is override ko nalang lahat ng materials ng white para mas mabilis i render.

4. Kapag kuntento na ako sa lighting and camera set up ko, I "save as" my max file to "camera & sun" na file name. Yung file na yun is yung camera and vray sun ko lang ang laman nun.

5. Madalas, kapag nakita ko na basically ang structure, i still make adjustments sa design ng structure. then kung ok na, i'll just merge again yung camera and vray sun ko. Then i will proceed na sa composition by adding trees and cars. then final render na.

6. then konting adjustment nalang sa photoshop. Unsharp mask, color balance, curves.
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by kat palmares on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:54 pm

i'll share mine too sa interior naman.

1. AUTOCADD
a.from the whole plan , i usually copy lang yung room na i rerender and then ginagawa kong 1 layer lang lahat like walls doors furniture pieces windows reflected ceiling plan lahat 1 layer
b. i transfer it to a new drawing, create new layers for wall, door, window ceiling lights, cove light, etc. usually rectangle para solid pag tinransfer na sa 3dmax
2. 3DMAX
a. file link manager.
b. extrude and move the layers, e.g. wall layer extrude =2700mm, door extrude=600mm + move=2100mm,
c. after completing the model of structure, i assign the wall floor and ceiling finishes.
d. import or merge the furniture pieces and assign the materials
e. create light. usually just 1 vray light outside the scene para mukhang natural lighting at the same time madaling irender
f. assign the render preset and the environment

3.PHOTOSHOP
a. brightness and konting contrast lang para ma lighten yung scene especially if its a day scene
b. if may konting noise sa wall pwedeng i gaussian blur ng konti yung area na 'yon.

thats the short summary. thumbsup
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:17 am

may nabasa akong thread before. he is using the after effects for set-up ng with max. i hope maka pag share din sya ng work flow....dont know kung paano pero very interesting yung procedure.....

thanks whey and kat for adding up.....
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by reyknow on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:46 am

restricted ba sa archi to? share ko din sana pipeline ko ginawa ko dati
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:50 am

ayos pre!!!okey na okey yan sir reyknow.....share mo na din para makita....for now di kailangan restricted ang topic dito....pag gumanda saka natin e ilipat ng bagong thread i know pang organic yan trip mo but still 3d pa rin....go lang master reyknow!!!


Last edited by f-41 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by ERICK on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:51 am

pwede ba ko magshare dito dude?
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:52 am

ERICK wrote:pwede ba ko magshare dito dude?

pwedeng pwede master erick!!!!
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by celes on Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:07 pm

here's mine

1. plan - clean up in autocad - usually it's just the lines and furniture blocks. no hatches, no trees, no heavy splines.

2. import to max - then group as one object, and apply a single color and layer.

3. building the walls - spline then extrude. sometimes with modifiers (poly etc) depending on the design of the partitions.

4. building the base floor - spline then extrude

5. for special shapes on the floor pattern - another set of splines, with extrusion value slightly greater than the base (to avoid unnecessary boolean operations). same principle applies to the ceiling or any pattern that lies in the same plane.

6. furniture - mostly modelled from scratch. i try to avoid evermotion models if i can. they tend to slow the workflow with their heavy meshes and overly indulgent materials.

7. lighting - when going for a mood setting:
exteriors - vray sun simulating close to a sunset; when pressed for time, i use an ies sun to speed render times. (credit goes to machakaw for teaching me this - he discovered that among the sun simulators before (direct light, etc) ies sun gave the fastest render times.)
interiors - i just rely on ies lights with enough secondary bounces.

8. lighting - when going for a normal day or flourescent setting in exteriors and interiors respectively - that's when i find the other vray lights useful.

9. materials - i try to optimize as much as i can in the materials. this means no bitmap larger than 2k pixels. i try to avoid uncompressed file formats too such as TIF.

10. trial and error - i have a preset render setting for trials in lighting and materials. usually it's adaptive subdvision sampling with -1, -1, a very low irradiance map, light cache of 50,20 (default is 1000, .02), and subdvision multiplier of merely 0.1. this allows me to finetune the overall output quickly without having to spend too much test renders. (this trick was taught to me by norman / optimus prime)

11. final render -
for stills - 2000 px minimum width, with medium settings
for animations - prepasses depending on the scene (incremental or animation prepass whichever is appropriate)

12. color mapping and cameras
i tried and experimented a few methods - high HDRI settings, vray cameras, reinhard, LWF, etc but i find myself back to exponential. i guess this is my personal preference (high contrast images) and will stick to it. also the vray camera doesnt allow room for emergency fixes, especially in animation, unlike the standard camera which u could then render in scanline (alpha passes, or RPF files, for example). also the disadvantage of the other methods i.e. a vray camera with a high HDRI multiplier is that u cannot get the same render results in any view other than the phys camera itself (for example if you merely want to test an object's color in ortho view.)

- ciggy break -

13. post processing
photoshop - curves then unsharp mask (render setting is in quadratic or area)
after effects - curves, DOF (using a vray zdepth pass) and noise (for night scenes). contrary to what many believe, a bit of noise is essential. clean renders only apply to scenes with enough ambient and day lighting. (this principle i got from photography)

ADD: courtesy of master norvs - all materials, including walls, have to be applied with glossiness values - the logic as he has explained it to me was that all surfaces have a degree of reflectivity. in the absence of appropriate GI bounces the glossiness help do the trick.


Last edited by celes on Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : daming singlish)
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:15 am

WOW sir celes!!you rock!!! sarap basahin yung work flow nyo parang libro ng 3d max tutorial...will keep this as a note!!! alam mo naman lagi akong curious sa diskarte nyo sa 3d!!! i salute you for giving us this info kahit na hirap kayong mag english dahil napapa singlish kayo!!hehe....
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by celes on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:03 am

hehe salamat norman kung mapapansin mo marami jan galing sa mga cgp members rin.
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by arjun_samar on Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:23 pm

celes wrote:here's mine



13. post processing
photoshop - curves then unsharp mask (render setting is in quadratic or area)
after effects - curves, DOF (using a vray zdepth pass) and noise (for night scenes). contrary to what many believe, a bit of noise is essential. clean renders only apply to scenes with enough ambient and day lighting. (this principle i got from photography)

ADD: courtesy of master norvs - all materials, including walls, have to be applied with glossiness values - the logic as he has explained it to me was that all surfaces have a degree of reflectivity. in the absence of appropriate GI bounces the glossiness help do the trick.


Sir celes, Just reading this short notes it almost explain every pages of a cg book (for post-production) . thank you for giving this very useful principles.
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by celes on Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:10 pm

thanks arjun Smile
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:13 am

celes wrote:
13. post processing
after effects - curves, DOF (using a vray zdepth pass) and noise (for night scenes). contrary to what many believe, a bit of noise is essential. clean renders only apply to scenes with enough ambient and day lighting. (this principle i got from photography)

sir celes, tanung ko lang about AE. pano work flow dito? i mean pag na render ko na diretso after effects ang post processing, tapos save nyo nalang ng image ulit(jpeg)?
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by celes on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:52 am

yups. same as kung pano ka mag pp sa photoshop

only sa AE animation ang output and madaming options (JPEG sequence, PNG sequence, quicktime, etc)
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:05 am

thanks sir, ito gusto kong tuklasin na workflow. and to the following week mag undergo ako mag aral ng AE dito sa sg.....nakita ko yung gawa nyo dun sa mga race car. iba yung level nya....dont know kung sa PS nyo na nagawang ganun or sa AE nga...very interesting....... Very Happy
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by zdesign on Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:17 am

'tol parang walang su dito a nakakahiya mag post, wahihihi
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by Norman on Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:23 am

share nyo na sir z...dating SU to max din ang workflow ko....im sure dami matutulungan ng diskarte nyo,,,,
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Re: Work Flow Thread

Post by jenaro on Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:56 am

Very Basic Work Flow ko:

1.First: Cleaning stage sa Cad, make sure na ung mga lines are connected before exporting to SU. kadalasan nagtatagal sa pagclose ng plane kung di mahusay ang pagkagawa sa Cad.Minsan pagdi mo ma export kasi di compatible sa version, save as dxf tapos export mo sa SU,make sure na tamang option ng pagexport.

2.Second: Modeling time na, sa interior simpleng push and pull lang. Sa exterior nilalatag ko lahat ng elevation and i form them like a box,para mas madali ang pagpush and pull kasi may basehan ka na.

3.Third: Color it white, di ako gigil sa pagpipintura ng interior o exterior. Base color ko white tapos test render muna para mapagaralan ang quality ng light.tapos tweaking na sa light

4.Fourth: Layering,grouping,outliner,scene. dapat habang ngmomodel eh grouping na dapat ng wall,flooring, celing para masaya este para organize.set mo the scene para kung babalikan mo eh precise yung angle.

5:Fifth:Material application, inshort isa ka ng ganap na pintor.

6:Sixth: rendering, dont forget to tweak necessary channels that you need,magagamit mo yun sa postprocessing.

7:Seventh:Photoshop, isa ka ng makeup artist.
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