Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

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Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by tutik on Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

gotta share this:

Mark W. Lewis

(Also see Advice on Becoming a Professional Artist by Jeremy Sutton)
1 "Do this one cheap (or free) and we'll make it up on the next one."
No reputable business person would first give away their work and time or merchandise on the hope of making it up later. Can you imagine what a plumber would say if you said "come in, provide and install the sink for free and next time we'll make it up when we need a sink." You would be laughed at! Also the likelyhood is that if something important came along, they wouldn't use you.

2 "We never pay a cent until we see the final product."
This is a croc, unless the person is leaving the door open to cheat you out of your pay. Virtually every profession requres a deposit or incremental payment during anything but the smallest project. Once you have a working relationship, you may work out another arrangement with a client. But a new client should not ask you to go beyond an initial meeting and, perhaps some preliminary sketches without pay on the job!

3 "Do this for us and you'll get great exposure! The jobs will just pour in!"
Baloney. Tell a plumber "Install this sink and my friend will see and you'll get lots of business!" Our plumber friend would say "You mean even if I do a good job I have to give my work away to get noticed? Then it isn't worth the notice." Also the guy would likely brag to everyone he knows about how this would normally cost (X) dollars, but brilliant businessman that he is he got if for free! If anyone calls, they'll expect the same or better deal.

4 On looking at sketches or concepts: "Well, we aren't sure if we want to use you yet, but leave your material here so I can talk to my partner/investor/wife/clergy."
You can be sure that 15 minutes after you leave he will be on the phone to other designers, now with concepts in hand, asking for price quotes. When you call back you will be informed that your prices were too high and Joe Blow Design/Illustration will be doing the job. Why shouldn't they be cheaper? You just gave them hours of free consulting work! Until you have a deal, LEAVE NOTHING CREATIVE at the clients office.

5 "Well, the job isn't CANCELLED, just delayed. Keep the account open and we'll continue in a month or two."
Ummm, probably not. If something is hot, then not, it could be dead. It would be a mistake to *not* bill for work performed at this point and then let the chips fall where they may! Call in two months and someone else may be in that job. And guess what? They don't know you at all.....

6 "Contract? We don't need no stinking contact! Aren't we friends?"
Yes, we are, until something goes wrong or is misunderstood, then you are the jerk in the suit and I am that idiot designer, then the contract is essential. That is, unless one doesn't care about being paid. Any reputable business uses paperwork to define relationships and you should too.

7 "Send me a bill after the work goes to press."
Why wait for an irrelevant deadline to send an invoice? You stand behind your work, right? You are honest, right? Why would you feel bound to this deadline? Once you deliver the work and it is accepted, BILL IT. This point may just be a delaying tactic so the job goes through the printer prior to any question of your being paid. If the guy waits for the job to be printed, and you do changes as necessary, then he can stiff you and not take a chance that he'll have to pay someone else for changes.

8 "The last guy did it for XXX dollars."
That is irrelevant. If the last guy was so good they wouldn't be talking to you, now would they? And what that guy charged means nothing to you, really. People who charge too little for their time go out of business (or self-destruct financially, or change occupations) and then someone else has to step in. Set a fair price and stick to it.

9 "Our budget is XXX dollars, firm."
Amazing, isn't it? This guy goes out to buy a car, and what, knows exactly what he is going to spend before even looking or researching? Not likely. A certain amount of work costs a certain amount of money. If they have less money (and you *can*) do less work and still take the job. But make sure they understand that you are doing less work if you take less money that you originally estimated. Give fewer comps, simplify, let them go elsewhere for services (like films) etc.

10 "We are having financial problems. Give us the work, we'll make some money and we'll pay you. Simple."
Yeah, except when the money comes, you can expect that you will be pretty low on the list to be paid. If someone reaches the point where they admit that the company is in trouble, then they are probably much worse off than they are admitting to. Even then, are you a bank? Are you qualified to check out their financials? If the company is strapped to the point where credit is a problem through credit agencies, banks etc. what business would you have extending credit to them. You have exactly ZERO pull once they have the work. Noble intentions or not, this is probably a losing bet. But if you are going to roll the dice, AT LEAST you should be getting additional money for waiting. The bank gets interest and so should you. That is probably why the person is approaching you; to get six months worth of free interest instead of paying bank rates for credit and then paying you with that money. Don't give away money.

Now, this list wasn't meant to make anyone crazy or paranoid, but is designed to inject some reality into the fantasy.

You are GOING to be dealing with people who are unlike yourself. Their motivations are their own and their attitudes are probably different than yours. There are going to be demands, problems, issues and all the hassles that go with practically ANY work/job/money situation. Too many times I see the sad example of someone walking in to a situation with noble intentions and then getting royally screwed, because what they see as an opportunity and a labor of love, the other party sees as something else entirely, not at all romantic or idealized, but raw and simple.

How can you deal with this stuff and still do good creative work? Good question. THIS is why an education is important. You learn, out of the line of fire, how to deal with the art at it's own level and also how to deal with the crap that surrounds it. You may have tough teachers and think that it can't be worse, but wait until a business person has a hundred grand riding on your art! Then you will know what "demanding" means. You will then thank all those tough teachers for building up the calluses that enable you to enjoy the job rather than just feeling like it is all a big waste of time!

In the end, working commercially, being a terrific artist is about 25% of the task. If that is the only part of the task that you are interested in, do yourself a favor. Don't turn "pro."
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:49 am

Akira wrote:so ur saying because i misunderstood ur post aangasan mo na agad ako?? that's funny now i just realized crystal clear nga cya..

ganito lang yan e, i just asked you na "PAKI explain" to us newbies (FYI: newbies = students, hobbyist, self-studying ones) kung anu ibig niyung sabihin because i know maraming nagreresearch about CG and pwedeng
makamis-interpret.. simple lang un mas malinaw pa sa krayola pero frankly speaking ang angas agad ng nireply mo e...
made me wonder bakit ganyan k magreply sakin, pero kay mr v_wrangler at ser mushroom behave ka.. ????

cgeh na nga tigilan na ang discussion tutal forum naman ito..


peace man

Akira, save the energies - I'll give you a private lesson about what passion is all about. And it will be for free. Yon nga lang once you're in the passion court - there's no way out.

Kung ok sa yo - kita tayo sa forum. Pakita na lang natin sa gawa di ba? thumbsup

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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by celes on Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:22 am

v_wrangler wrote:Passion pre, marami akong alam dyan. pero alam ko mas marami kayo ni tutik na alam thumbsup
Sama nyo naman ako minsan!

nyaaa


Last edited by mushroom on Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by tutik on Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:36 am

mushroom wrote:
v_wrangler wrote:Passion pre, marami akong alam dyan. pero alam ko mas marami kayo ni tutik na alam thumbsup
Sama nyo naman ako minsan!

OT tutik, hehe..

basta passion sa singapore sige, pero pag nagawi kami jan sa sapporo, ikaw naman magpakita ng passion ha. lalo na diyan maginaw lagi.. :p

OT rin celes hehe...
yari tayo ke vertex, handa na natin sangkatutak na yen. Laughing
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by tutik on Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:45 am

v_wrangler wrote:Mods, btw - if you are going to delete threads or posts, I'd appreciate it if you can just say a bit of whys. Its disgusting to spend an honest hour writing an honest, harmless post and find it go poof without explanation. Delete is power - use it wisely thumbsup

vertex, we're looking into it (about the deleted thread) sensya na.
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by ronski_g on Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:39 pm

O.T.

Sorry Akira, Mushroom and Vertex...... It's just that my disgust on the bad side of this industry has overwhelmed me and eventually become too emotional to the entirety. I don't mean to yell at you guys or to give you the impression that I'm angry at you too. I know it was out of control and I want to apologize.

Akira, sorry bro, keep your chin up dude, this was just another old man expressing his anger thru bad experiences..... Don't ever wind up like me, hahahahaha. That's right keep your passion's flame up high and make the right moves. Don't be mistaken, there are STILL, a lot of good people around... Smile
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by cloud20 on Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:26 pm

can we now attribute this hulabaloo to too much coffee?... sugar?...
peace peeps...
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:31 pm

good thread... good ending also peace man

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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by whey09 on Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:39 pm

for newbies out there for the 3d business,,,expect you will encounter the best and worst type of clients,,this thread will teach you how to deal with them,,,

i suggest that we give some advices on how to deal with these type of clients in case we will encounter some,,
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:23 pm

don't u sometimes wish that all people you encounter have shame?

magkaroon ka ng hiya

one thing that i learned from my very first boss that still lingers in my mind.
dahil kung mey hiya ka, hindi mo iisipin mang api or mang apak ng ibang tao.

i am not referring to anyone.. i am referring to everyone.
be sensitive to other people's feelings. imagine yourself in their shoes.

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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by Akira on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:34 am

wala po un ser ronski, kalokohan ko rin po un alam ko naman mga clients tlga ang ayaw mo inde naman tlga kami..
bsta okay po taung lahat d2 now.. Smile Group Hug...

sir v_wrangler, Smile cge po ittry ko ring makapagpost ng mga doodles ko, doodles lang naman po tlga ang meron ako..
but i'll try rin po makagawa.. Smile

MERRY CHRISTMAS!! haha nakalimutan na ata natin magpapasko na.. Smile


rendeer santa rendeer
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by zildjian on Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:10 am

hmmmm..ok guys, group hug na sa shower... cher
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by arkiedmund on Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:04 am

Mabuti at ok na ang lahat. Kung pwede lamang ay gumamit tayo ng wikang tagalog kung sa tingin ninyo, ay di mauunawaan ang nais ninyong ipamahagi sa ating kapwa miyembro kung tayo ay gagamit ng wikang banyaga, ng di tayo magkakaroon ng kaunting alitan.

Salamat po.....
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:51 pm

Thanks Tutik and my dear friend kabute, salamat for showing me around last week. Kaya lang bitin. As for Sapporo, it'll be a surprise! Hintayin ko kayo. Pero sa Tokyo na lang - masyado akong banal sa Sapporo eh Laughing And Arkiemund, nice to meet you too!

Going back - I like that post by dear kettle. Hiya. MArami na kasi ang walanghiya sa mundo eh.

In Japan, we also have something similar, "Hito ni meiwaku kakeru na!" Roughly translate to "Don't ever cause somebody else's trouble!"

That has been the guiding spirit in all dealings - whether that's personal or at work. You wouldn't want your friend or boss to lose face to his clients thats why you'd try to finish the work before or on time. You want to raise your sempai's (senior) tachiba (status) so that when he gets the opportunity, the sempai will pull you the kohai (junior) up with him in success. This is a cycle that never ends. And it is a good mutual arrangement.

Shame. I want that.

Here's one truth that they do not teach you in school:

1. Trust is everything. If your clients trust you - they will always come back for you.
2. It takes years to build up trust but it takes a second to destroy it.


Have Shame. Be Trusted.

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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by celes on Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:26 pm

OT ulit



Last edited by mushroom on Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by crayzard on Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:43 pm

ui si sir celes at si.... Neutral
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by artedesenyo on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:17 am

PASYON - sa mahal na araw lang ako nag papasyon pero show lang yun papasyon show pakita sa tao kala mo rehilyoso hehehehehehe

batobato sa langit tamaan wag magalit hehehehehe
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by bokkins on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:07 am

nangyari na sakin to almost lahat! amazingly. haha. And in fact, some of these lies had been a standard to some companies. Qúe barbaridad!

Mabenta ang "do this and they'll be more to come." sabi ko, oo nga, more to come na same lang ang amount. lugi pa sa pagod at kuryente.

Also, meron akong isang client na do this para mabayaran ko ang una. actually ginawa ko nga. hindi pa din binayaran, hanggang sa ako pa ngoffer na gawan ko pa sya ng isa pa para mabayaran pa ung iba. ganun nga siguro talaga. Some people never change.

Advice ko lang sa lahat. "Demand your worth." kung mismo ikaw sa sarili mo ay walang tiwala sa gawa mo, ibang usapan na yan. In short, vulnerable ka sa mga lies na to. kaya goodluck and magingat sa manloloko. Very Happy
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by bokkins on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:09 am

OT: Sayang talaga di ko nameet si Vertex. si edmund kasi, sinecreto sa akin. haha. Very Happy
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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by Guest on Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:06 am

OT pa ulit... i sent sms to you bokkins ... informing na dadating si vertex ...

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Re: Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers

Post by wangbu on Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:59 am

to all cgpinoy guyz thank you for sharing your experiences in life..
I've learned well.

@tutik tnx for sharing this point of view (Top 10 Lies told to Naive Artists and Designers) thumbsup
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