how much do you charge???

First topic message reminder :

guys,

just like to know, how much do you charge your client for a hi-res interior 3d drawing using 3dsmax in vray rendering? im asking beacause i dont know how to make quote on the said project. the print size is A2 size. hope somebody will enlighten me. tia guys and more power to cgpinoy...

Ito lang sa akin, wag nyo na sana ipadama sa iba ang mga nararamdaman nyo. wag nyo din sana sisihin ang iba sa kalagayan nyo. you make your own decisions like I make mine. Kung successful ka man, good for you. at kung hindi na man, make it work. Lalo na if you are able and still strong. May bukas pa.

bokkins wrote:Ito lang sa akin, wag nyo na sana ipadama sa iba ang mga nararamdaman nyo. wag nyo din sana sisihin ang iba sa kalagayan nyo. you make your own decisions like I make mine. Kung successful ka man, good for you. at kung hindi na man, make it work. Lalo na if you are able and still strong. May bukas pa.

Thats it!!... kaya wag na sisihin palage si engineer!!...

cloud20 wrote:

mushroom wrote:for the clients, you get what you pay for, but for the artists, give what you are PAID for.

Exactly in tune with master heneral jumong's point of view...
But if you have the passion, sometimes di mo mapipigilan sarili mo to give it your best shot. Kahit alam mong mababa kiktain mo sa project na iyon, parang di mo rin maatim na hindi ibigay ang best effort mo... Which results in a quandary...

The cycle, vicious such as is it, goes on...

yun nga master cloud alangan ako lagi sa output na gagawin ko dahil mababa lagi presyo , kaya pinapakita ko talaga sa kanila kung ano itsura ng ganitong presyo ,before i proceed ,to be safe always and also to protect my name as a visualizer ,pero yun nga dahil sa passion natin sometimes di talaga maiwasan na napapaganda lalo na pag maliit lng na 3d job na kaya lng paikutin ng quad ko ...im enhancing my animation skills ryt now para sumabak na naman sa ibang market but i dont know whats the current pricing pa .. currently making a render farm for animation purposes ... sasabak na rin kami sa animation..

May nagpagawa sa akin ng complete set of drawings..CE siya, kahit alam natin na bawal na yun dahil nga sa bagong batas, wala din tayong choice, kelangan ko ng pera, sa hirap ng buhay ngayon, papatulan mo na kahit ano. Ni design fee wala akong nasingil, hanggang per page lang sa drawings, para lang akong ginamit para makagawa ng matinong design si client...pero, tagutom ngayon, kung di mo kukunin ang mga ganyan, wala ka na talagang kakainin.

Minsan frustrating din na tayong mga Pilipino hindi makasunod sa mga batas natin ng tama eh...

kaya, as long as hinahayaan lang natin yan, lahat ng professionals sa atin kawawa, mapa doctor pa man or lawyer yan, kaso at least sa kanila, di madaling magpeke ang abogado at doctor. ang madali ay yung may magkunyaring electrical engineer siya, yun pala, eletrician lang pala..or CE siya, yun pala, CE grad lang na nagdedesign din.

Kaya bukas, ilalagay ko na din sa calling card ko na structural designer din ako, at pumipirma ng structural with STAAD ng 25 storeys na bldg...ganyanan naman sa pilipinas eh..nyahahahahaha.... :evil:

Pero, naiintindihan ko din ang mga kasama nating engineer, kasi, ilan lang ba nagpapagawa ng kalsada, hindi araw-araw may tinatayong tulay sa Pilipinas, at para ka maging elligible na maging structural engineer, mag aaral ka pa ulit ng masters, kasi pag graduate ka lang ng 5 yrs, general engineering lang ang pwede sa yo.

Ewan ko lang kung nasusunod ito, baka meron din sa mga kabaro nila na nag-aapakan din ng paa ng kapwa nila CE, kahit di yung isang tao pwedeng mag sign sa ganitong docs sa structural ginagawa din. Kung ito nasusunod ng maayos, ibig sabihin, kawawa nga naman si arkitek...

Ang best option for those architects dabbling in 3d, or design is to move away from architecture, and probably try something else, like animation, be it character or archivz, or learn visual effects...yan ang ginagawa ko ngayon, and once makuha ko ito, iiwan ko na ang archi-field, kasi hindi level ang playing field sa construction industry kung dito ka lang sa Pilipinas.

You will have to deal with the masons, carpenters, contractors(na minsan criminology graduate pa), and even the architecture graduates, who also do your thing, because even though there are laws, this stupid country with stupid leaders, and with people comprising of 80% law violators, cannot impose or even properly regulate the different professional practices that we have.

balik sa usapan:

For complete set of drawings, madalas mangyari ngayon per page na, pinakamataas na nasisingil ko is 1,000 per page. As i've said, I am doing my darn best to uphold my profession, but the problem is, the client will force you to scrap provision after provision from your basic fee, just so the client can get your services at a much lower price.

Most Pinoys probably says "aanhin ko pa ang pagiging matapat at masunurin sa batas, kung gutom naman pamilya ko"....

I guess, as long as most of us are not well provided, as long as the way of living in this country is difficult, these scenarios shall never change.

As for me, ok lang...wala naman akong pinapakain, i rest my case here...if i am to gauge my race with how law abiding are we.

Sometimes, it makes me feel bad to be Filipino.

bokkins wrote:ito lang ang opinion ko sa 1,500 na yan.

a regular employee is getting 8,000 per month. that means 400 a day @20 days/mo. so 50 pesos per hour @ 8 hrs/day.

lets say gumawa sya sa office ng 3 hours. 150 lang yun.

gumawa sya ng freelance na 3 hours, 1,500 na yun. Sulit di ba. Murang mura nga. pro sulit na para sa isang regular employee na nangarap kumita ng mas malaki.

Kung sa client naman, sulit din, lalo na pag di naman gaanong mapili ang client. kasi overhead din yan eh.

Dyan na papasok ngayon kung san gagamitin ng client at kung may budget ba or kung pang marketing ba. So madami talagang pwede maging cost ang isang 3d. At dahil sa competition like any other business, bumababa tlaga ang presyo over the years. Law of supply and demand.

Sir boks. Rebut lang ako sa statement mo.

1. Very rare ang 3 hours na final ang output. With revisions and all, that translates to about 1 view per day. Entonses, P400/view. Mas mahal, pag the next day me irerevise pa.

2. Most likely itong 3 hours na to, me mga preset models that shouldve been purchased (evermotion, whatever). So me unit cost yan. Pero very minimal so pwede natin i ignore.

3. Sa office, hindi ang empleyado ang nagbabayad ng rental, electricity at kung anu ano pang overhead to keep the business running. In my experience running a business in Singapore, 30% of a person's wage is spent on all these. So for a person who earns P8000 x 0.30 = me additional na P2400 na cost. This means in one month the company actually spends P8k (his salary) and P2.4k (his OH factor) = P10.4k. So by now - P65 / hour na siya. P520 / image na.

4. It never happens in a design office, unless mass production oriented company kayo (like a 3d viz co), na nonstop ang mga renderings na pinapagawa. There will be times na nakatambay lang ang mga yan.

I am not about to say P1500 is way low. Based on this - it seems like mas mataas pa rin ang P1500 / image compared to roughly P520-600 / image sa office.

Pero eto mga drawbacks:

1. Freelance is supposed to be higher simply because after office hours are like OT hours.. 1.5 dapat ang value. Eh since gabi or magdamag lang natin ginagawa ang freelance.. that means ang value of freelance work is close to P520x1.5 = P780.

2. Ang regular work is cheaper because me premiums involved na di natin kinoconsider - security is one, insurances, and other benefits like bonuses.

3. If the argument is a person earning P8k / month to a P1.5k / freelance image, then yes, IMMHO, I suppose pwede. Pano kung mga masters yan kagaya nina .... na kumikita ng P35k / month? This means:

P35k basic salary
P10.5k OH
=
P45.5k / 20 / 8 = P285 / hour x 8 hours = P2275 / image.

So - the price really depends on the skill and experience ng freelancer. P1500 is not bad - kung beginner ka pa or if you are doing this freelance thing fulltime. At that rate you will still earn more than working fulltime - imagine doing 20 x 1.5k images a month, P30k na un. Question is - ganun pa rin ba kadami ang ngpapagawa?

Now for someone like ... na super duper master renderer na, malaki pa sahod, eh lugi ka talaga sa P1500/image. Salamat na lang sasabihin niya sa cliente, irerecommend na lang kita ng iba. Pero for him - to do it at that price, is a waste of time, mas mabuti pa itulog na lang niya tutal kumikita naman siya ng P35k pesoses on his regular job.

We cannot control this pricing situation because in the first place, wala naman regulations since di naman considered na "profession" ang 3d / CG on its own - by that I mean wala pang professional regulation from the government na involved. And even if there was, look at architecture - ilang beses nang pinagpipilitan ng mga professors natin na "hoy, pag naging arkitekto na kayo, dapat 10% ng contract cost dapat ang fee ng architect" - eh wala rin, sila pa ang namimigay ng design nila for much less, and even for free in exchange for kickbacks from the contractors. (bato bato sa langit tamaan wag magalit)

Ito lang naman ang observation ko master Boks.

(To be continued. yosi lang muna ako, then sasagutin ko si master cloud.)

@ sir mushroom: medyo mahaba para i-quote yung entire post mo pero I'm all out yes, agree on what you entirely said.

cloud20 wrote:

mushroom wrote:for the clients, you get what you pay for, but for the artists, give what you are PAID for.

Exactly in tune with master heneral jumong's point of view...
But if you have the passion, sometimes di mo mapipigilan sarili mo to give it your best shot. Kahit alam mong mababa kiktain mo sa project na iyon, parang di mo rin maatim na hindi ibigay ang best effort mo... Which results in a quandary...

The cycle, vicious such as is it, goes on...

true. and consistency rin matters. di pwedeng pangit ung ibang renders mo kahit sa mga kuripot na cliente. that's a good practice - professionalism ang tawag jan

i underwent the same routine when i was in manila and when i was young(er). syempre atat magrender ng magrender, kahit pang jollibee lang kinikita, basta ung 3d mailabas lang, either for practice's sake, portfolio building, whatever. in the end ang value naman ng mga pinaghirapan sa dulo na minsan mararamdaman (wow that rhymes).

pero syempre dahil wais na tayo ng konti - ul get to be more discerning with who you work with. but yes, i admit this is only true because, like most OFWs, mejo mataas ng konti ang kinikita therefore, di na gano kelangan mag sideline/tabi. ginagawa lang yan para me extra pera pambili ng chogokin or lenses. (kaya ung kababayan natin sa japan bili lang ng bili ng pokemon eh.) mahirap sa atin, minsan ung freelance work nagiging basis for survival and that's when prices really go down kasi wala tayong choice.. survival mode na eh. well master cloud, like the rest of the guys here, i admire you for keeping ur feet firm on the ground and still maintaining that standard of the product. saka kung ang asawa mo ba naman eh kamukha niyang si sassy girl sa avatar mo, ok lang kumayod ng kumayod.

btt: i mean most of us na nakaswerte't nakapagtrabaho sa labas would really be surprised at the rate. for the record - dito sa singapore ang isang view (a few years back) nasa S$250-300 (fr interior - exterior) and that's x 32 = P8k minimum! pero ika nga ni master boks - law of supply and demand - meron na dito na sumisingil na lang ng S$100/view = mapa interior man or exterior. dati chinese and indians lang ngayon pati thais and even filipinos are doing so. me ngkwento pa sa kin na pati taxi driver daw sa shanghai or shenzhen ba un.. eh me portfolio ang walanghiya, ng o offer ng 3d rendering sa mga pasahero.

pag ganito ang trend, soon matitigil na ang pagkolekta ng mga kababayan natin ng mga latest lenses at action figure toys. magiging kuntento na lang tayo manood ng wowowee instead of doing a sideline at that rate. duamdami mga renderer eh, konti naman projects - me mini 3D recession na mangyayari. pasalamat tayo at me alex roman na nag push ng standards. ngmukha tuloy tae ang mga ginagawa natin at sinasabi niya siguro sa cliente, "if you want this style of animation, you gotta pay up" sabay irap. so at least ang labanan ulit, pagandahan naman.

sa mga nasa pinas i guess it's really the sad reality. para tuloy nababalewala ang profession natin as an architect - 5 years natin binuno un (7 years for me, bulakbol eh) pero unlike mga kabatch natin na bankers, lawyers, engineers, etcetera - halos di rin sulit ung kinikita. me joke nga kami sa batch - wag mag architect dahil yan ang last na magpapatyo ng bahay - dahil sa grupo, kikita lang daw ang architect pag nagpatayo na ng bahay ang mga kabarkada niya.

which is quite true - our profession is the last to enjoy economic highs, and the first to feel economic lows.

anyway nadidigress na ko sa topic. my only point is - hmm wala, ngkwkwento lang hehe.

if you cant earn much from what you do, at least enjoy it.

kampai master cloud

OT: yuhu odi no offense sa sidelines=lenses or toys ha. :p

ok a..Talagang detailed yung mga prices.hehehe,.. Interesting discussion.Ill try to share some prices here in Bahrain as well..Pero later na lng pag may time pa at di pa ako antok.Just busy doing some part time gig.rendering pa din hanggang ngayon. Rendering for like 56 hours right now..

heheheh...aantayin namin yan jef...ehheheh...medyo wala ring fix tayo d2 sa bahrain..heheheh....

nasa paligid ako ng mga chines dito sa amin where business is strictly for business kaya ako tuloy naging isip tsinoy na rin , most of my works really depends on the price pwera lng kung pinoy ang client thats why i do papogi points kahit barat kadalasan ,di ko kaya ginagawa ni master cloud ...i salute to the man!ako? just as mushroom said "give them what you are paid", well i can still do that here sa area ko... but sad to say jan sa area ni master cloud dami na talaga and di pa nya kilala ang iba ..dito sa min kilala ko halos lahat ,kaya nakokontrol pa presyo namin..may naririnig ako na bumababa sa amin , pinagsasabihan ko agad ...

thnks mushroom for your share ...

kahit sana dito sa cgp where halos ng mga cg "tirador"ng pinas ay andito ma regulate natin ang presyo or can we do something as members? before lumala pa ng husto ang crisis ... di na lng natin napapansin affected tayo lahat dito..mabilis ang communication sa net ...

For sir Bokkins; the situation warranted that I illustrate the disparity of life here & of the life outside pinas. I only did so because the comment was made from a member who lives & works outside pinas. That is the only reason why I did so. And why the sidelines / lenses were brought up. To serve as points of comparison. Hell if I were working abroad & had the money I'd be riding a Yamaha 2010 VMax; not that my souped up 190cc Yamaha Mio isnt any good. But I wouldnt be scolding my fellow pinoys to shape up to save the industry if I myself wasnt doing anything but yakkety-yak. If the comment was made by one who resided here I would have just shut my trap. Personally I have never blamed anyone for my lot in life But when someone blames me for something that is not solely my fault you bet your ass I'll be reacting. When you get to my age & realize its always gonna be a crappy world youll see it through my myopic vision. If we don't tell others how we feel about the industry paano magkakaalaman nyan. It's gonna stay rotten.

For masteridol Celes; nahilo ako sa math but I commend you for staying objective & still nailing the proverbial nail on the head. You've covered all grounds extensively except for one thing; my wife doesn't look like my avatar, she looks like Jaclyn Jose. My girlfriend looks like my avatar though. Just kiddin folks lest i rile up the prudes.


Para sa heneral; you're lucky controlado mo grupo mo. Lipat kaya ako dyan. Dito josmioporsantoquebarbaridad laksa laksa ang renderer.Dun naman sa give them what they pay for; mahirap kase baka makita ng iba yun gawa ko tapos sabihin "huh??? gawa ni kalbo yan??? ang pangit naman??? ganun pala gawa nun??" or "parang minadali ni kalbo yan ah"...
Somethin like that.


Para kay kabalen Odi; oist at least naging catalyst ka ng pagbabago ng industriya dito sa pinas. Kung me pagbabago mang mangyari. Leche. Uwi ka dito me inihanda ako para sa iyo.


Para sa mag members na nasagasaan ko; no harm no foul.

anhaba ng thread - trip ko sanang makigulo kaso lang may byahe ako bukas - family service muna today.

Cloudy - handa mo na yang malamig - daan natin sa alam mo na.

Angaganda ng punto ng magkabilang panig - pero bawat side ay tama. Hanapan na lang natin ng tugmaan.

Tatawag na lang ako sa biyernes next week kaibigan. Send my hi's to the chikabebs.

Isa lang pahabol,

Yon pong chipipay na price at mahal na price ay may kanya kanyang market. Hindi lahat ng kliyente ay can afford kung sinong hudas man ang nag sabi ng leche hodang standard na yan. So if not all of them can pay - somehow, somewhere, someone's got to attend to them.

My last bottomline is - it does not matter how much you charge but be professional enough to deliver what you are paid for. Wag mo rin sasabihin na kaya mukhang scanline circa 1980 ang render mo ay dahil 1K lang ang singil mo.
If you charge 500 bucks for your renders and you are proud of what you do and your clients are satisfied - then you are in the right track. Pagbutihan mo pa at nbg makorner mo ang market na yan.

Price is not really an indication of a sunking market - its the quality you produce.

Now if I am to answer the original poster, how much I charge - I'd always say I charge what the client can afford. No standards.

I want a san mig na!

tama ata si sir v_wrangler...sa akin my render hindi po fix cost.....it depends pa rin sa project na ibigay sa akin...pero yung hindi lang ako malulugi.....sa trabaho ko...

v_wrangler wrote:Isa lang pahabol,

Yon pong chipipay na price at mahal na price ay may kanya kanyang market. Hindi lahat ng kliyente ay can afford kung sinong hudas man ang nag sabi ng leche hodang standard na yan. So if not all of them can pay - somehow, somewhere, someone's got to attend to them.

My last bottomline is - it does not matter how much you charge but be professional enough to deliver what you are paid for. Wag mo rin sasabihin na kaya mukhang scanline circa 1980 ang render mo ay dahil 1K lang ang singil mo.
If you charge 500 bucks for your renders and you are proud of what you do and your clients are satisfied - then you are in the right track. Pagbutihan mo pa at nbg makorner mo ang market na yan.

Price is not really an indication of a sunking market - its the quality you produce.

Now if I am to answer the original poster, how much I charge - I'd always say I charge what the client can afford. No standards.

I want a san mig na!

hahaha.You couldnt resist Sir Roy!